Autor Tópico: Desarmar o povo... de novo?  (Lida 139208 vezes)

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Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1675 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:38:52 »
e os seus não são?? eles citam os outros que vão contra suas conclusões e as refuta??


Eles tem métodos, peer review, feitos por universidades respeitas, etc, o citado pelo Felipe é só um apanhado de estudos, feito sob encomenda de uma das maiores empresas fabricante de armas,  Olin Corporation.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1676 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:42:32 »
então.. e os outros não? o do Buck não?

Aqui vai um que cita vários estudos...

http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-gun-laws-less-crime1.htm


Citar
The fight for more stringent gun control laws derives in part from the idea that more guns mean more violence. As it turns out, though, in the United States and the rest of the developed world, total murder and suicide rates, from all causes, do not increase with rates of gun ownership -- or drop under tougher gun laws [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak].

The effect of gun laws on gun-related violence is fuzzier and far more controversial but, in general, more guns mean more gun-related violence [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak; Luo]. We'll examine this further below.
.....

The former Soviet Union's extremely stringent gun controls, successfully implemented and enforced by a police state, did not keep the nation, and successor states like Russia, from posting murder rates from 1965-1999 that far outstripped the rest of the developed world [sources: Kates and Mauser; Kessler; Pridemore; Pridemore]. The killers in question did not obtain illegal firearms -- they simply employed other weapons [source: Kleck].

....

On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, posted low murder rates in the early 2000s compared to "gun-light" developed nations. In 2002, for example, Germany's murder rate was one-ninth that of Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: Kates and Mauser].

Statistics within countries paint a similar picture: Areas of higher gun ownership rates correlate with areas of lower rates of violent crime, and areas with strict gun laws correlate with areas high in violent crime [source: Malcolm].

Pronto... tem um monte de estudo aí...
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1677 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:43:39 »
Apenas veja os países desenvolvidos que liberam armas e veja seus índices de violência. subdesenvolvimento gera violência, e mesmo isso não é incontroverso.
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1678 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:44:54 »
Você leu o seu link?

Logo no segundo parágrafo:

"The effect of gun laws on gun-related violence is fuzzier and far more controversial but, in general, more guns mean more gun-related violence [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak; Luo].
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1679 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:47:54 »
Li por isso que coloquei essa parte.

Primeiro.. você leu o resto? Eu sempre leio tudo.

É óbvio que poderá (fuzzy) haver essa correlação mas há uma correlação negativa com a violência. Entende.. mais arma, menos violência, talvez mas mortes por armas.

Entendeu??
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1680 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:49:13 »
então.. e os outros não? o do Buck não?

Aqui vai um que cita vários estudos...

http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-gun-laws-less-crime1.htm


Citar
The fight for more stringent gun control laws derives in part from the idea that more guns mean more violence. As it turns out, though, in the United States and the rest of the developed world, total murder and suicide rates, from all causes, do not increase with rates of gun ownership -- or drop under tougher gun laws [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak].

[AGORA SEM A PARTE QUE DEIXEI DE PROPÓSITO POIS SABIA QUE provavlemente você tiraria conclusões apressadas sem ler o resto.
Pode refutar o restante agora...

]

The former Soviet Union's extremely stringent gun controls, successfully implemented and enforced by a police state, did not keep the nation, and successor states like Russia, from posting murder rates from 1965-1999 that far outstripped the rest of the developed world [sources: Kates and Mauser; Kessler; Pridemore; Pridemore]. The killers in question did not obtain illegal firearms -- they simply employed other weapons [source: Kleck].

....

On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, posted low murder rates in the early 2000s compared to "gun-light" developed nations. In 2002, for example, Germany's murder rate was one-ninth that of Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: Kates and Mauser].

Statistics within countries paint a similar picture: Areas of higher gun ownership rates correlate with areas of lower rates of violent crime, and areas with strict gun laws correlate with areas high in violent crime [source: Malcolm].

Pronto... tem um monte de estudo aí...
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1681 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:49:22 »
Continuando lendo...

The only clear message in this complex issue is that violent crime overall does not increase with the availability of guns, but gun-related violence does [sources: Kates and Mauser; Liptak; Luo].
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1682 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:50:27 »
To adorando seu link:

"Some opponents of gun control, including NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, say, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" [source: Lichtblau and Rich]. But at least one study has shown that defensive gun use succeeds only rarely, and that gun owners are 4.5 times more likely to be shot during an assault [source: Branas, et al.]."
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1683 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:52:24 »
Continuando lendo...

The only clear message in this complex issue is that violent crime overall does not increase with the availability of guns, but gun-related violence does [sources: Kates and Mauser; Liptak; Luo].

Como disse, é óbvio.. mas a violência cai.

“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1684 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:53:28 »
eu também

On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, posted low murder rates in the early 2000s compared to "gun-light" developed nations. In 2002, for example, Germany's murder rate was one-ninth that of Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: Kates and Mauser].
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1685 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:54:07 »
Por isso que te digo.. como esse texto cita várias pesquisas, várias visões irão existir.
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1686 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:54:45 »
continuo amando o texto... entende?

he fight for more stringent gun control laws derives in part from the idea that more guns mean more violence. As it turns out, though, in the United States and the rest of the developed world, total murder and suicide rates, from all causes, do not increase with rates of gun ownership -- or drop under tougher gun laws [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak].
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1687 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:56:49 »
não adianta você querer dar o tema por encerrado. Claramente o assunto é polêmico e quem adora intervenções estatais adoram que ele se meta na vida dos outros, ainda mais se não for com a sua em específico (não mencionando você aqui)

Peque os países desenvolvidos.. eu ganho fácil a parada. Pegue países pobres.. a análise começa a ficar difícil e mais complexa.
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1688 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 20:57:54 »
Viu o vídeo do Daily Show na Austrália? Viu a queda de violência que aconteceu com as leis contra armas? Assiste, eu sei que voei é fã do Jon Stewart.
Citação de: Barata Tenno

link=topic=24665.1675.html#msg862500 date=1440201027
To adorando seu link:

"Some opponents of gun control, including NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, say, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" [source: Lichtblau and Rich]. But at least one study has shown that defensive gun use succeeds only rarely, and that gun owners are 4.5 times more likely to be shot during an assault [source: Branas, et al.]."


Bela proteção.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1689 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:00:08 »
então.. e os outros não? o do Buck não?

Aqui vai um que cita vários estudos...

http://people.howstuffworks.com/strict-gun-laws-less-crime1.htm


Citar
The fight for more stringent gun control laws derives in part from the idea that more guns mean more violence. As it turns out, though, in the United States and the rest of the developed world, total murder and suicide rates, from all causes, do not increase with rates of gun ownership -- or drop under tougher gun laws [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak].

[AGORA SEM A PARTE QUE DEIXEI DE PROPÓSITO POIS SABIA QUE provavlemente você tiraria conclusões apressadas sem ler o resto.
Pode refutar o restante agora...

]

The former Soviet Union's extremely stringent gun controls, successfully implemented and enforced by a police state, did not keep the nation, and successor states like Russia, from posting murder rates from 1965-1999 that far outstripped the rest of the developed world [sources: Kates and Mauser; Kessler; Pridemore; Pridemore]. The killers in question did not obtain illegal firearms -- they simply employed other weapons [source: Kleck].

....

On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, posted low murder rates in the early 2000s compared to "gun-light" developed nations. In 2002, for example, Germany's murder rate was one-ninth that of Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: Kates and Mauser].

Statistics within countries paint a similar picture: Areas of higher gun ownership rates correlate with areas of lower rates of violent crime, and areas with strict gun laws correlate with areas high in violent crime [source: Malcolm].

Pronto... tem um monte de estudo aí...

Viu isso... realmente uma bela proteção
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1690 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:00:28 »
continuo amando o texto... entende?

he fight for more stringent gun control laws derives in part from the idea that more guns mean more violence. As it turns out, though, in the United States and the rest of the developed world, total murder and suicide rates, from all causes, do not increase with rates of gun ownership -- or drop under tougher gun laws [sources: Killias, van Kesteren and Rindlisbacher; Liptak].

realmente ... uma bela proteção
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1691 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:05:50 »
Essa é a melhor visão

One of the reasons gun debates are so difficult to settle, aside from the strong feelings involved, is that the data involved in researching connections between gun laws, gun ownership, gun crime and non-gun crime are frequently mixed, murky, misrecorded and difficult to compare [sources: Kates and Mauser; Zimring; Zimring].
Take the United Kingdom, where ever-more stringent gun bans brought gun-related homicides to among the lowest in all of Europe from 2003-2010, but where guns remain widely available and are increasingly used in the commission of violent crimes [sources: Bamber; BBC; Malcolm; UNODC].
How does one interpret the success or failure of gun laws in a nation that a July 2009 issue of The Telegraph dubbed "the violent crime capital of Europe"? The U.K. newspaper based the claim on a 2007 study of per-capita violent offenses, but some people argue that problems of definition render comparisons among the European Union nations invalid [source: Edwards].


Similarly problematic is the claim that dropping crime rates in America throughout the 1990s were attributable to the relaxation of gun control policies [source: Kates and Mauser]. Perhaps this easing was a factor, but no data exists that can draw so clear a line, particularly when other factors were in play. Some analysts, for example, point to the significant uptick in American prison populations and executions during this period, or to the larger police forces and improved crime-fighting tactics, the flagging crack-cocaine trade and/or the booming economy [sources: Donohue and Levitt; Lott and Mustard].

Other analysts take more unusual tacks to explaining the drop-off. Economist Rick Nevin, for example, attributes a substantial portion of crime rate fluctuation to changes in childhood lead exposure [source: Vedantam]. As made famous in the book "Freakonomics," economists Steven Levitt and John Donohue credit legalized abortion in the 1970s for the 1990s fall in violent crime. They argue that abortions prevented the births of children to poor, single, teenaged mothers -- a demographic they say is more likely to produce criminal offspring [sources: Donohue and Levitt; Kates and Mauser; Levitt and Dubner; Vedantam].
The point is, the "more guns = more violence" argument and the "gun ownership = decreased crime" argument both sidestep the complicating socioeconomic, cultural and psychological factors affecting violent crime. Economic disparities within countries, along with periods of economic downturn, drive up crime and homicides, and violent crimes occurs four times more often in countries with wide income gaps.

While economic prosperity tends to decrease violent crime, crime itself can depress community development, perpetuating a cycle of poverty and violence [source: UNODC].

Violent crime arises from more complicated causes than guns, yet there is no question that guns are associated with a particularly brutal brand of crime. Removing guns from the equation might not stop violence altogether, but might it prevent another Newtown?
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Barata Tenno

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1692 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:06:20 »
Não aumenta crimes, mas aumenta violência relacionados a armas!!!

The only clear message in this complex issue is that violent crime overall does not increase with the availability of guns, but gun-related violence does [sources: Kates and Mauser; Liptak; Luo].


Essa frase resume o problema.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you. Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1693 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:09:04 »
Não.. a frase que resume é essa..

Citar
On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, posted low murder rates in the early 2000s compared to "gun-light" developed nations. In 2002, for example, Germany's murder rate was one-ninth that of Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: Kates and Mauser].

Statistics within countries paint a similar picture: Areas of higher gun ownership rates correlate with areas of lower rates of violent crime, and areas with strict gun laws correlate with areas high in violent crime [source: Malcolm].


 :biglol:
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1694 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:23:53 »
Ih... harvard

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2013/08/30/harvard-gun-study-no-decrease-in-violence-with-ban/


Citar
In the 46-page study, which can be read in its entirety here, Kates and Mauser looked at and compared data from the U.S. and parts of Europe to show that stricter laws don’t mean there is less crime.
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1695 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:29:10 »
harvard ainda..

…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

É basicamente o que disse.. a obviedade dos fatos se você não tem ideologia, que tenta enquadrar o mundo em sua visão e não ver os fatos. Sem ideologia, as pesquisas simplesmente vem...
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1696 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 21:43:35 »
porém...

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/03/guns-neither-increase-nor-decrease-crime-rate.html

Ih.. parece que quando eu disse que tinha para todos os gostos eu estava correto.

O fato é, a posse de arma é completamente marginal para a violência, sendo fatores econômicos e políticos mais relevantes.

O estado NÃO deve se meter nessa, ele está agindo IDEOLOGICAMENTE ao suprimir do cidadão um DIREITO de se defender, que deveria ser Inalienável.
Principalmente no brasil, onde governos têm a tendência de fazer isso com outras intenções.


Fim.
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Moro

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1697 Online: 21 de Agosto de 2015, 22:13:23 »
Eu disse algo que pelo menos não corrobore com isso?

Nope  :ok:
“If an ideology is peaceful, we will see its extremists and literalists as the most peaceful people on earth, that's called common sense.”

Faisal Saeed Al Mutar


"To claim that someone is not motivated by what they say is motivating them, means you know what motivates them better than they do."

Peter Boghossian

Sacred cows make the best hamburgers

I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers."  --William Gascoyne

Offline Johnny Cash

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1698 Online: 22 de Agosto de 2015, 03:44:39 »


Nesse compilado de dados, do Guardian, não há correlação na proporção armas per capita vs. taxa de crimes por arma de fogo quando olhado mundialmente.

Isso deveria ser definitivo.

Skorpios

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Re:Desarmar o povo... de novo?
« Resposta #1699 Online: 28 de Outubro de 2015, 14:32:42 »
O pior é que suas excrescências se arrogaram o direito de andar armados. Medo dos eleitores? :hein:

Comissão da Câmara aprova alteração no Estatuto do Desarmamento; veja o que está em jogo

 

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